The Other Moose on the Table
You will recall me talking about the moose on the table not too long ago. In talking with a fellow MT this past weekend and in seeing some of the social media posts this week, I have come to believe we have another dead moose on the table. It’s one we often ignore and guys, get ready because this one stinks even more than the one where we talked about the changes the EHR will bring to our world. I ask you to read this carefully, give it some real thought, and then let’s have a discussion. It’s one I think is important and you know, only by acknowledging that the moose is there can we really deal with removing the stench. I write this know it won’t make everyone happy, yet I think particularly with the changes we have coming in our future, we simply have to put this one out there and talk about it. It’s not meant to offend; it IS meant to have a tough discussion.
This moose is called: Not every MT produces quality work or is good at what they do. Yikes, I did say it. It’s a stinky moose. Still I think it’s important to acknowledge this one. Let me tell you why.
Our profession has been through a lot. At the time we started to see a huge impact in offshore transcription and had such an uproar in the industry about that, it was tough to figure out the why. We heard MTs saying they couldn’t find jobs and yet we also heard companies saying they didn’t have enough of a workpool to draw from. Okay, first let’s just acknowledge that often medical transcription went offshore because of cost. It’s simply less expensive in many ways. I can tell you from first hand experience it’s not inexpensive to get it set up, but once it’s set up, then a company does see a cost benefit. So let’s set that aside and just acknowledge that yes, cost is part of the factor here. One day one of my friends said this simple but powerful statement: “I think people are just deciding if they’re going to pay for crap, it should be cheap crap.” Ouch! That one sure hurt. And yet, as a person who at the time did employment testing and hiring, I had to admit I had seen some pretty atrocious employment tests.
It’s so easy when things happen to stand on the sidelines and scream about how something is “done to us” once again. It’s a lot tougher to really take a look at whether there’s some role we played in it happening.
Let me also be really clear that I believe there are a lot of really good MTs who do care about the quality of their work and do a great job every single day. A lot, but not all. And the more people get pushed into the “productivity counts” corner, sometimes the worse it gets.
Are you still breathing? I hope so because we’re not quite done here.
I think we’ve let a lot of people into this profession and allowed them to call themselves medical transcriptionists who simply don’t have the skill set to be really proficient at it. Add to that mix schools that don’t teach all they should (again, not all schools, but we know they’re out there), and employers who are willing to hire those folks because they may cost less and maybe they can “teach” them, and we have created one massive mess in our industry.
This last week I also saw a post by an MT who was complaining on a public newspaper’s board that her medical transcription employer was now requiring 99% accuracy instead of 98%. Really? Do we want the public to think we really think 98% accuracy is “good enough”? In just one example of that, if 98% accuracy was good enough in health care, that would mean for every 100 babies born, 2 could go home with the wrong parents. How good is that 98% accuracy now? Yep, I thought so.
Now flash forward to today. We have the EHR breathing down our neck, and we believe we are capable of those roles. We are singing a mantra about keeping the narrative in the report as one avenue of retaining roles as the EHR is rolled out because “we focus on the integrity of the documentation.” Hmm, now let’s see what else is happening at the same time. Health care is trying to figure out how to decrease costs, implement technology, and improve patient safety (hopefully not necessarily in that order). So today I see a post from someone who actually said they spent way too long looking for data in a record because of the horrible job done by the MTs. Wow. If that’s the image we have out there, how can we advocate for being the ones who should be responsible for being sure the data is right? It’s a huge challenge. I also spoke with someone not too long ago who asked me to explain to them more about how transcription worked. He asked because he said he has talked to hundreds of patients and has yet to find one single patient who didn’t find errors in their records. One example he gave was that his own report said he was an 80-something-year old female. Not what any man in this 40s or 50s wants to see in his records.
Simply put, MTs who cannot or do not produce true quality in their work won’t be able to find roles in the EHR world. In addition, it will be really tough to advocate for a role for us if we’re seen as the group who creates errors in the documentation. It’s something we need to address.
Are you seeing the moose here? Yep, it stinks. So let’s have some discussion. How do we clean this up so that we can really be seen as the solution to some of the challenges today and not another “error” to get rid of? I look forward to your responses!
Related posts:
Tagged with: electronic health record • future of medical transcription
Filed under: Challenges in Medical Transcription • Future of Medical Transcription
Like this post? Subscribe to my RSS feed and get loads more!







Very thought-provoking post. So is the answer some sort of “mandatory” credentialing as a barrier to entry, do you think? If the standards of practice are raised, how will that affect the availability of labor, and how will THAT affect compensation, if at all?
A lot to think about…
[Reply]
Sarah Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 6:39 am
My job requires a lot of research so that I can provide good data to my superiors. Some of the reports I have to read that are done by CMTs in America are barely understandable. Either I’ve been really delusional about most MTs doing good quality work and in reality we are a bunch of nit wits, or people are just no longer taking pride in their work. If the latter is the case, no wonder our work is going to India.
[Reply]
Susan Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 7:40 am
Sarah,
How would you know the work was specifically done by CMTs unless you personally knew the MT whose initials were at the bottom of the report? If you were researching work that came from a specific department I could see what you were saying. However, no one puts sdd CMT next to the dictator’s initials. Proportionally, the number of CMTs is extremely small.
[Reply]
Sarah Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 7:50 am
Yep, you are right. I made the entire story up. I spent hours fabricating it for your entertainment just to make MTs look bad. It is all a part of my master plan to discredit the credential. Sarcasm aside, obviously that information is available to me.
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
I’m glad you put sarcasm aside here as I believe Susan’s question really was a valid one and do know your realize that. It’s good to know that you do have access to that information as it sure provides some insight for all of us. I believe a big question is how we figure out how to police ourselves with things like this.
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 9:33 am
Good question, Jay. I’m not sure that’s the answer until we can prove it makes a difference. So far, we just don’t have the data to say it does. And reading Sarah’s posts to this thread, I’m seeing that some of the really bad things she’s seeing are coming from CMTs. I do believe raising the standards of practice will decrease the availability of labor, however, I think there will be fewer and fewer traditional MT jobs in the future as well. I just think this issue of poor quality is one we never really put on the table, yet we do know it exists, and it was time to put that moose out there.
[Reply]
Jay Vance, CMT Reply:
August 25th, 2011 at 8:26 am
I think the conversation around quality is extremely timely. One of my takeaways from the AHDI conference is that we need to connect what we do to the outcomes everybody else in the healthcare business is talking about these days. We have to first find a way to show empirically that feeding quality raw data into the beginning of the pipeline is the only way to ensure that the information coming out the other end is accurate and meaningful. Then we have to produce evidence that says skilled medical transcriptionists are the best qualified to make sure that raw data is in fact accurate, whether the patient information is being dictated and transcribed, dictated and edited, or entered directly into an EMR. If we can’t make that case to the rest of the healthcare delivery system, there’s no reason to expect that we’ll be seen as anything other than an assembly line, widget-making industry.
Sarah’s observations concern me greatly, and I don’t believe she’s making this stuff up. We can’t make a case for our place in the process if we can’t demonstrate our commitment to quality. Now to be fair, the current rat race, pound-out-the-lines environment so many MTs work in these days makes it very difficult to produce high quality work. As several commenters have pointed out, some MTs are expressly forbidden to correct speech recognition drafts even when they’re clearly wrong. So I don’t think we can lay the blame for that at the feet of the MTs. If the client, at the behest of the technology vendors, are telling the MTSOs that MTs are not to adequately edit speech recognition drafts, that puts the liability squarely on the client and the technology vendors when they get poor quality results.
Bottom line, there’s no one easy solution to this mess. But there’s no doubt that MTs have to show that we know the difference between quality and junk.
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 12:59 am
Thanks, Jay. I absolutely agree with you that we need data. That’s been my mantra for a long time. The book I’m reading makes it clear that without data we have no way of really knowing what we’re dealing with. I, too, didn’t like hearing what Sarah was seeing. I also really do not believe anyone on this site was saying they didn’t believe her. I think the question that caused some commotion was simply that, a question asking for clarification so Susan could understand the process better.
I’m frankly quite disturbed when I hear any MT say “well the push is for production so of course I make mistakes.” It doesn’t show accountability on our part for doing the best we can do. It’s a prt of the culture that I’d like to see change.
Sherry Evans Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 10:37 am
Jay,I hate to say it, but the stinky moose does NOT lay at the door of only the “uncredentialed.” I work for an MTSO whose platform allows me to look into past history of the patient I am transcribing to help fill in blanks, etc., and I can tell you that I have seen errors (from basic English usage on up the line) in notes that were transcribed by RMTs and CMTs BESIDES the rest of us who are still uncredentialed. I know it’s impossible to be PERFECT, and 99% is a very sought-after goal that I would be proud to reach. In the national transcription companies where many people oversee an account and its transcriptionists through a chain of command and there are “routine, probably quarterly, QA audits performed,” the MT always knows where he or she stands, but this is not so in the smaller MTSOs that exist. On my current account (I work as an IC for a very small specialty clinic), we have recently changed from being a 1-MT-per-doctor account to being one where all MTs are cross-trained on all doctors. Some of these docs are very difficult to understand, and it is taking some of us quite some time to get out of QA, knocking off one at a time. One we are “out of mandatory QA,” we don’t have any official QA audits! We just all do the best we can with what we have and rely on each other to help with blanks and questions via an email network we have set up with each other.
I just think it’s important to acknowledge that having a credential doesn’t make anyone “closer to perfect” than not having it. Some people just are good at taking tests…or else they are just plain lucky. Yet when it comes down to the practical matter of doing the actual work, they make mistakes just like the rest of us, only I don’t see them questioning what they include in their clinic notes with blanks or asking someone in the email network…they just send them complete, complete with errors that is.
[Reply]
Sherry Evans Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 10:39 am
I made some typos, for which I apologize.
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
Sherry these are good points. You’re right that the credential doesn’t mean anyone is “perfect” and as we’re seeing in other comments, sometimes it’s the CMT who is making some of those really awful errors. One of the things I have said we lack in our industry is concrete data to tell a compelling story. We just don’t have it. Until we do, it’s tough to say something, no matter what you point to, makes a difference.
[Reply]
JulieW8 Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 12:22 pm
Jay, someone has yet to explain to me how “mandatory credentialing” will improve quality.
Through the years, AAMT/AHDI has been very careful to stay away from the claim that credentialed MTs produce better quality work than non-credentialed MTs.
So – the day there’s an independent study that proves credentialed MTs consistently transcribe with better accuracy, I’ll support credentialing. Until then, it’s hot air.
[Reply]
Sherry Evans Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
I agree with you, Julie….at least about it being mandatory. I am in the process myself of preparing to take the exam, so I say that for those who WANT it, can afford it, and can say that for themselves it is right, I would support that. I think it needs to be everyone’s personal choice.
This is a little bit off what you were talking about, but I think it is related: I also feel that every company employing MTs, whether in-house or as either online employee or online IC, needs to have scheduled periodic QA audits so people know exactly where they stand in terms of QA usage and accuracy. Once you start giving what amounts to “merit raises” for excellence in quality of work produced, for meeting line count requirements, bonus for exceeding those minimums while still maintaining excellence in quality, for going above and beyond the call of duty when it is possible (whether in learning additional accounts, mentoring newbies, etc.), etc., you will find that the cream will rise to the top and the watery stuff left on the bottom may get the message that they either need to improve quickly or find themselves another situation. I think what it boils down to is that situations where people “hang on” because of seniority vs. where people “stay” because they are appreciated for the value they give to their company are 2 very different things, and I think we would all LIKE to be the ones who are made to feel appreciated and wouldn’t ever want to be working for or with anyone else!
[Reply]
After the research I did yesterday at work, I am not sure I can go to our doctors and argue that MTs should be entering the EHR data. The crap the MTs are producing is as bad as the doctors! So here I am trying to put together a project to hand the input of the record over to qualified MTs, and I get reports from them with multiple critical errors and HIPAA violations. It is no wonder we are not valued if even just a few of us are doing that quality of work. Maybe this is why some MTs have no interest in working with the EHR. If you don’t have the intellectual capacity to realize my 750 gram patient did not receive a bajillion grams of heparin, we have a problem. Lastly, I am going to quote someone who taught me a strong work ethic and an absolute comittment to quality, and please forgive any typos as I am on my phone on a train. “If you cannot learn the difference between your and you’re, you may as well wear a tee shirt thats says I’m ignorant and proud of it!” That about sums it up.
[Reply]
Sherry Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 7:30 am
An MT who started in this field nearly 10 years ago is looking for a new position. She sent an email that she saw an add in the newspaper and is going to stop buy and fill out an application. Hmmm….
[Reply]
To the best of my knowledge, my employer has never terminated any MT for poor quality. It recently did terminate about 20% of my coworkers for not meeting a revised production standard when it moved to VBC line counts. In addition, I have often corrected errors dictated by providers that were obvious errors (the age discrepency above is one that happens often) and flagged reports with things such as questionable medication dosages. I cannot, however, fixed errors dictated that I dont’ recognize as errors, such as incorrect medical histories. These errors are the purview of the dictator who has access to that informantion and I do not. Credentialing will not prevent dictators from continuing to document an inaccuracy that may have started many documents ago and is continuing in a patient’s record because the dictator is reading off previous documents and not bothering to do a fresh interview with the patient. Documentation of a patient’s history starts with the clinician who first sees the patient and dictates the results of the interview and exam. Let’s make them as responsible as we are.
[Reply]
Sarah Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 8:35 am
I agree very much with you; however, the problem I’m seeing, and keep in mind every facility is different, is that I need to be able to go to the facility and make a proposal to hire people to enter this data. The errors I’m referring to are not likely due to dictator error. Many look like expander goofs (triamcinolone in a sentence where it should have just been “there”). We would need people who will be able to read the written record and create an EHR entry from that. This is going to require a very good understanding of medicine. Of course this is how the idea of hiring residents to do this job was born. I had hoped to be able to show that hiring people with MT experience would be most beneficial, thus creating jobs for MTs. To accomplish this, I need to show that we would decrease errors by using an MT/scribe instead of the clinicians entering the data. When the reports that we still have transcribed are full of errors created by the MT, it is very very difficult to make this arguement. The doctors do take a portion of the blame, but when I’m reviewing reports that say “the G-tube was inserted through the eye” I know that is MT error. Even if a doctor sounded like he said that, the MT should have flagged it. There is no excuse in that sentence in a report coming through to us.
This problem is so extremely complicated. First of all we have hospitals contracting with the cheapest bidder. We have MTs who don’t care about their work, possibly because of their pay. We have MTs only typing what they hear without having a high-level understanding of the medical content. Of course we also have some great MTs out there, but in this context I’m referring to the bad ones. Now we’re in the era of the EHR and doctors and NPs are entering data into the EHR that was once dictated and transcribed. I’m also seeing a lot of secretaries transcribing who are not MTs and are only able to type what they hear. Of course we as professional MTs would like to see MTs entering that data. It’s a tough situation because to argue that those EHR entry jobs should be done by MTs, we have to have MTs who are actually capable of doing it and are willing to work on site. I’m not sure we have very many who meet either criteria.
As for my project, I’m ready to scrap it and just let the NPs and doctors keep on doing it. From where I’m sitting right now, it looks like there are so few qualified MTs and even fewer willing to work on site that even if we convinced the facility it would be pointless because there is no workforce for us to pull from. If I was hiring, I would do what my boss did and hire someone with at least a bachelor’s degree in a health field, require 300 level anatomy training, and MT experience. Obviously, I’m frustrated with the project and frustrated with MTs making it so darn hard to make an argument that they should do our EHR data entry. That wasn’t an earthquake yesterday. It was me beating my head against my desk.
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 9:45 am
Sarah, you’ve really just nailed why I think we need to have this conversation. There are some great opportunities for MTs in the new EHR world, but only if we’re really good. There ARE some great MTs who do quality work and I believe they are the ones who will thrive in this world. You’d also right that we have to be willing to leave home to do it. What I fear is that we will hit barriers trying to enter into this new world because of the poor quality that we’ve not policed in our own industry.
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 9:35 am
I agree with you that physician make mistakes all the time. In fact, our project that we’re doing where we are tracking that is giving some good examples of that as well as some examples of some excellent MTs who are catching and either fixing those things or flagging them. One thing I continue to wonder is how we police ourselves. It’s really what we need to do and somehow we just kind of sweep this one under the rug and pretend it doesn’t exist. I have indeed seen MTs terminated for not meeting quality standards, yet clearly there is still a lot that slips by unnoticed.
[Reply]
Sherry Evans Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 5:59 am
I had a really weird beginning to a dictation yesterday. I can’t remember the wording exactly, but I’m going to put it here. My reason for including it here is that, although we “get the point” the doctor is trying to make, it is absolutely TERRIBLE sentence structure. You’ll see what I mean as I don’t have a direct quote, but I know this is very much the way the sentence was dictated:
The patient said his elbow hurt after some kid stepped on it when he went to school accidentally.
Okay….did he go to school accidentally? That’s sure what the sentence structure says. (I KNOW that what the doctor meant was that the child went to school where another child accidentally stepped on his arm….but unless this patient was actually laying on the ground or the floor, how could someone else step on his arm? GRRRR)
[Reply]
Sherry Evans Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
I just checked again. The sentence was: “The patient said his elbow hurt after he had some kid step on it when he went to school accidentally.” Now doesn’t that just sound like the doctor said what he meant?
JulieW8 Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
This does contribute to the problem. Finding a really good MT is next to impossible; finding good MTs isn’t impossible, but it isn’t easy. When the volume of dictation is pouring in, you’re falling behind on TAT, and the lines need to be transcribed, you’d hire a trained monkey just to get them done. Ever wonder why most employers are always hiring and many overhire? Theoretically, they’d be culling out the bottom 10% of MTs. I can’t tell if there’s no follow-through or if the people they keep hiring can’t be distinguished from the bottom 10%.
The other reason is the constant churn of MTs who quit and otherwise disappear for hours, days or even permanently without any notice.
[Reply]
Wow, this is a “don’t get me started” post. Having been in quality management for years, I have seen both sides of the coin–MTs paid on production and MTs paid hourly–and I can tell you right now that the advent of paying MTs on a line count started the demise of quality in a big way. Now this may not be true where you work, Sarah, because a lot of in-house MTs are paid hourly or even salaried. But even with standard hourly pay, there probably is some sort of quota or production standard to be met. And that’s where we are wrong, wrong, wrong. An MT or a QA editor should have enough time to ensure that the patient’s record is correct, whether it takes a few minutes or 2 hours to complete that report, and not have to worry about whether they can feed their family that week. Yep, I will agree with that CFO that it IS expensive, but will a lawsuit be less expensive than an MT taking a few extra minutes to ensure that everything is correct? Yes, I also agree that the quality starts with the dictation, but I also know that it’s not an excuse for an MT to be so pi$$ed off at the dictator that he/she will type whatever.
We have had a new QA Best Practices program in place for a couple of years now (I worked on that committee), but is anyone really using it? If that piece isn’t in place or isn’t being enforced, then we will continue to see quality issues, plain and simple. The other piece of that is to use the program and fire MTs, CMT or not, who don’t make the grade. There has to be an SOP in place and it needs to be followed. If the quality isn’t there, we might as well use point and click instead of MTs.
Told ya not to get me started!
[Reply]
Sarah Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 8:43 am
I’m working on an extremely complicated case right now. I have to take 7 months of admission information and get certain data from it and then enter it into a national study I am working with. So far, this is the most complicated case I’ve worked with. I’ve been working on it for 3 days and will probably work on it for 2 more. I’m making the same as if I had done 20 cases in that time. Being able to focus on quality is wonderful. I love it and I love knowing I’m giving my company good work and 100% accurate data. I never liked production pay. It was too much pressure to hurry Hurry HURRY and I found it hard to keep focused on quality and produce enough to support my family. I know some of you are very good at doing that though. Years down the road, I could see this job having a quota though. For now, I sure am enjoying not having one!
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 9:37 am
Deb, I do agree that production pay impacts this. Still, in my opinion, we cannot continue to let that be an “excuse” for poor quality. And if we really want to have a role in the new world of the EHR, we have to “man up” and do something about our own house here.
[Reply]
Sherry Evans Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 6:12 am
Deb:
When I worked inhouse at the last hospital I worked at, we were paid by the hour…HOWEVER, we still had a minimum CHARACTER (not line) count that we had to meet or exceed. We were given 6 months to do it in. Actually, at 6 months, my performance review was so good that they actually EXTENDED my deadline another 6 months because I was CLOSE to meeting it. From the first day that I DID meet that character count, I NEVER had a work shift that I did NOT meet or exceed it….until the hospital “streamlined” ER procedures (by cutting their dictation by about 98% and having them draw on pictures and hand-write notes on the papers that the pictures were on, most of the time illegibly), and then these sheets of paper were scanned into an electronic medical record and each patient’s file was eventually turned into only an electronic record and stored away somewhere in the building for X number of years in preparation for its eventual destruction. At the same time THAT was going on, someone made the decision to open a “Mobile Surgery Center” which would in effect give patients who were paying out of pocket or who had private insurance the option of having their surgery done in a separate facility–patients whose bills were paid by Medicare, etc. (government programs) still HAD no choice; their surgeries MUST be performed WITHIN the hospital. Needless to say, the Mobile Surgery Center had its own transcriptionists and, once again, the Transcription Department lost about 50% of all of its op report dictations.
Because all of the hospital employees (outside of the doctors and the administration) are union and I was low person on the totem pole IN UNION SENIORITY, I lost my job due to lack of work. I COULD have bumped a part-time kitchen person from her job, but in addition to having a bad back and bad legs and feet, there is no way I could do that to someone else. It MIGHT have been their only income…and I certainly could do transcription from home like I had already proved I could do in the past! I could collect unemployment until I could be hired by an MT company. At any rate, I wasn’t worried for my future.
My point, I guess, is that even though a person may be paid by the hour, you can STILL have a quota to meet (and quarterly QA audits to pass, etc.).
[Reply]
Oh and btw, Kathy, I’ve always thought that the random minimum of 98% accuracy was a load. I tell my MTs and QA that we require 100% accuracy. Why not aim for 100%? You have to define accuracy, and I think the new QABP did just that. Critical errors are the focus. Punctuation and grammar has been taken off the table. We are aiming for a 100% accurate report for critical errors only. Doesn’t that make sense?
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 9:44 am
Yes it does make sense. I’ve always felt that we got too caught up in grading for punctuation and grammar that doesn’t matter. There ARE times when it matters and we need to not throw it out completely, but we can’t continue to be “comma queens” and expect to make an impact here.
[Reply]
Linda K. Reply:
August 25th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Deb,
It does make sense it aim for a 100% accurate report for critical errors only. If the punctuation changes the meaning of the sentence then that does need to be addressed, but catching or preventing the critical errors should be the priority.
[Reply]
Oh how I wish I had time to participate in this conversation today! Bob and I talk about this stinky moose at least twice a week. MTs don’t know what they don’t know! If they knew, they’d be ashamed (at least I hope they would).
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 9:42 am
I’m betting this one will go on for a few days, Laura! Feel free to stop by back when you can.
[Reply]
Sherry Evans Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Kathy:
In case you didn’t see it, please read my response to Jay’s comment–I think he was the first responder, and my response to him might have been the second. LOL
[Reply]
Okay, here is what I think, until and unless the client, the institution, the physician, actually start reading each and every report they dictate before signing it blindly and passing it on just to get the “paper off the desk” this kind of thing will never change.
We, as MTs, can complain about it, point it out, jump up and down hollering and it will not make a bit of difference. Poor quality work has been tolerated for as long as I have been in the business, all sorts of folks whine about it, but the only ones who can really change that are the clients who are paying the bill to have the work done. In today’s healthcare environment where cheaper, cheaper, cheaper is the mantra I simply don’t see anyone at all leading any sort of push to make that scenario any different.
The push in the EHR world is to the utopia of cost-free speech-generated text sans any sort of human intervention … in other words, a “what the machine produces is good enough” environment that is slowly but surely becoming acceptable, not just the odd exception. Even at organizations doing back-end speech editing the push is more and more toward if the machine prints out exactly what the doc said, don’t change it, let it go.
Would you like to know what my last “constructive criticism” was from a client we do SE editing for? “Dr. X dictated TEE and Renee spelled it out in the preoperative diagnoses. The only place we spell out abbreviations anymore is in the discharge diagnoses only. Please tell her to stop transcribing this incorrectly.” This, despite that fact that the speech engine was originally trained to expand out most abbreviations … thus the most critical part of my MT editing job these days, for this client, is sitting here listening to the voice and taking out expanded phrases and putting them back to abbreviations.
That is pretty much the sum total of brain power this client expects from the MTs “editing” this account (and I use that term “editing” with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek). We do not edit verb tenses, any sort of punctuation, exactly what the dictator says is what we let go, even to the point of “editing” things like “was” that the SR, correctly interpreted as “were” when it should have, back to the incorrect “was” … because that is what the dictator really said.
Frankly, these days I meet more clients (and that usually means someone other than the actual dictators who really have no say so at the institutional levels we deal with) with that mindset than I do ones who seem to think the MT is bringing any sort of “critical thinking skills” to the process at all.
I guess what I am trying to say is that in the current atmosphere of medical records that stinky old moose is slowly disintegrating and filtering back down as manure for the newer byproduct that is growing in that nutrient-rich environment we have created for it
Nae
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Nae, while I agree with you that we are seeing all of these things in our world these days, my concern is that we, as MTs, allow that to be “okay” for what we produce. I’m not pointing fingers on that one, just saying I think we have to accept the responsibility for what we produce (to the degree we are responsible, of course) and stop blaming someone else for putting out poor quality work.
[Reply]
Nae Reply:
August 25th, 2011 at 5:16 am
Well, for most working MTs that I know, they can allow that to be okay or not work. Two very simple clear choices … and not at all the angst ridden process we keep on trying to make it into.
Like I said, I think that until the clients stop paying for Julie’s “crap” all the MT watchdogging in the world is not going to stop this particular problem … so, maybe we should quit saying we are looking over our fellow MT’s shoulders and start focusing on looking over the client’s shoulder instead
Make some progress with that and then this issue shrinks all by itself.
Nae
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 1:02 am
Nae, you know after our lengthy discussion earlier that I do have some issue with this one!
I’d really like to see MTs stop “blaming” someone else for poor quality. Absolutely there are things we can’t control. But what about the things we can? What about the man I spoke of in my post who is a 40-50 year old man and ends up with a report saying he’s an 80-something female? Yep, it’s easy to say “oh that must be what was dictated,” but don’t we have some responsibility to actually be focused on things like that to flag or correct them? I don’t know too many women named Dave and that one just doesn’t make sense. And it makes it really tough to talk about the quality we bring to the table to someone outside of our profession when they give you examples like this.
Can I take credit for the “cheap crap” line?
Here’s what I experienced when I was an MTSO trying to find MTs:
1. The people who are really, really good are worth paying more and worth making sure they have enough work to keep them busy whenever they want to work. They are rare gems and deserve to be cosseted.
2. If I went through 100 applications for 1 open position, I could find maybe 10 I thought looked promising enough to pursue further. If I started all 10 of those people, only 1 would still be with me more than a week or two.
3. I was told I was too picky. Yes, too picky. Let’s ignore for this discussion the fact that I was the one signing the checks. How can it be “too picky” to require that ALL words – medical and non-medical – be spelled correctly? Yes, I had people argue with me that non-medical words that were not spelled correctly shouldn’t count for the same number of error points as medical words, especially since it didn’t change the meaning. I found myself scratching my head and wondering how the industry had come to this point.
4. When confronted with truly awful errors in transcription, 90% of transcriptionists would attack me and attack the QA manager (this is where “too picky” comes into the picture). The nicest ones tried to defend or explain the errors. The rest were appropriately embarrassed and apologetic.
5. Some of the worst MTs I’ve ever had work for me quit in a huff over what they considered onerous QA standards and went on to work as QA editors or even managers for other companies. That tells me all I need to know about the commitment to quality in this industry.
Every one of the MTs that I rejected, every one that couldn’t meet QA standards and quit, had worked for years in the industry and went on to continue working.
Cheap crap, indeed.
[Reply]
Deb Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
I just recently went through over 200 applications and found 6 people–just 6–who were able to pass the rigorous test I set up. Two of those 6 were new grads from one of the best schools around and were off 100% QA in a matter of weeks. Many of the applicants complained that the test was too hard. Many of these complainers were CMTs. I hired these 6 because they LEFT BLANKS where dictation was too speedy or unintelligible. That, to me, shows critical thinking skills and knowledge way beyond what just having a credential shows…and believe me, I am a huge proponent of credentialing.
All that said, Sarah, I don’t believe you should give up the project. I do believe you need the right MTs in there to do the work, as Kathy said. Maybe you need to bring this hideous quality issue to the powers-that-be and spearhead getting some great MTs in there.
[Reply]
Sherry Evans Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
I truly agree with you, Julie. And I don’t think that credentialing has anything to do with it. You are either a good-enough MT (in theory) to pass the examination or not. You can be an excellent test taker and still be a flop when it comes to putting the knowledge to practical use.
Maybe if I bring this to a personal level it might have more meaning. “A hundred years ago when I was in high school,” I could pass any written test in Phy. Ed. class, but when it came to actually being graded on participation, I was lucky to get a C-/D+. Other than my grades in archery and bowling, the rest were well below average. I lucked out that my written tests were generally A’s and B’s so my final grade might be a B-/C+.
Judging by that example, it is totally possible and plausible that someone can create a truly great first impression and test well but flop once they get their foot in the door. I would truly EXPECT that any MT who has been with a company for a while and proven that they are good at what they do should be made to feel like they are appreciated. There should never be a question that “this” is the place they want to STAY for as long as the working relationship remains good. I agree that as an MT EVERYTHING we do (and in most instances this is strictly limited to the QUALITY of our output) reflects on the reputation of the company we are affiliated with or employed by. While the business may WRITE our paychecks,it is really the MEDICAL FACILITY that allows that to happen. If the business loses a contract, it will be the MTs who have that good working relationship who will be kept on when work is scarce. No work, no paychecks! It has to do with skill and ability, meeting commitments, being willing to go the extra mile while maintaining that high quality of output, and being a person who can maintain a positive attitude even when it is difficult to do. We have to all keep in mind that we ARE in a service-type industry, and our reputation is based on the quality of our work. Our reputation is EVERYTHING.
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 1:21 pm
Yea, that line was indeed yours. I just wanted you to own it and not put you out there publicly myself so thanks for “manning up”!
I think what you’ve outlined here is really a big part of the problem we have. Until we police ourselves, nobody else is going to. They’re simply going to point out that what we give them is bad so why bother with it. It could be a slippery slope to saying “what SRT gives us is ‘good enough’ because it’s on par with what MTs give us.” That’s why I think this is an important discussion to have.
[Reply]
Sarah Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 10:40 pm
That just blows my mind! One compliment I’ve received a few times is that I take feedback very well. I never really understood that comment. I guess I get it now! It never even occurred to me I should be blaming you QA folks for my errors! LOL!!!
[Reply]
I’ll be setting up a blog post soon about ACE and will include a bit of an interesting concept by Joe Weber about “medical coordinators” who do MT in real time. Talk about needing to get it right the first time…
[Reply]
Susan’s questions and this thread inspired me. I don’t think I’m going to accomplish anything being the MT to EHR cheerleader. I’m not going to accomplish anything trying to create MT jobs in my facility either because the work force is not available to meet our needs. Sad but true. We would do better hiring RHITs. I’ve just been accused of lying one too many times now and I’m sure I should grow a thicker skin, but I shouldn’t have to. I don’t think there is ever a valid reason to accuse someone of lying. To be honest, when MTs say they make less than minimum wage I usually think they are full of crap. I’ve had that experience once for 2 weeks and I quit the job. Yet, I don’t feel the need to publicly ask them to pony up a W2 for proof. Anyone with the sense of my mother’s house cat isn’t going to provide all details of a job online. I wish I could be of more help because I did make the transition and it is great and I wish all of you the same success, but when it comes at the cost of that much aggravation it just isn’t worth it. When every single time I talk about that transition someone says I’m lying and now if I dare talk about the craptastic work a group of MTs are doing I surely must be lying too. Why bother? I can’t think of any reason. Someone else will come along and have a great story of a transition from MT to EHR and maybe that person can help more. My level of pissed offedness (yes, I made up a word) over that statement today made me think of more patient people, like Julie. How has that woman not reached right through the MT Chat server and strangled the life out of anyone? You’re my hero. Seriously. I just don’t have the patience for it. So, instead of being helpful and the MT to EHR cheerleader, the next time someone asks me how I did it I am going to be honest. I got off my butt and looked for a job. I know. Mind blowing idea, isn’t it? Fortunately I found one that was great for me. Your mileage may vary. If you don’t look and don’t market yourself aggressively, I can guarantee you won’t ever find the job though.
Stick a fork in this industry cheerleader, I’m done.
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 24th, 2011 at 11:10 pm
Sarah, I’m really sorry this is your reaction to this. This discussion is tough stuff, no question. And blogs are conversations, that means back and forth dialogue. Sadly it’s way too easy to see something in an online post and assume it’s accusatory when it may just be a question. I really do think that is the case with this one because I know the person who asked you this question.
I also have to say I disagree with you that MTs can’t do these roles. You’ve done it and that doesn’t mean there aren’t others out there who can do just what you’ve done. I think that’s important to remember. It’s important to remember that just like there are some MTs out there who are producing poor quality work, there are also a lot who are doing just what you’ve done, which is a great job.
I knew this post today would stir up emotions. It’s a tough subject and yet it is also one I think we have to start thinking about as we move forward and finding some answers for.
[Reply]
Linda K. Reply:
August 25th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
Sarah,
I hope that you do not give up the MT to EHR cheerleader role anytime soon. You are just the type of inspiration that is needed in today’s world.
I agree with Kathy, there are MTs that can do the job of inputing data into the EHR. Perhaps the best way to promote that idea to your bosses is to seek out and find the MTs that are turning in the top notch work and use them as the example of what can be done with the right person. Pretty much the same thing that you did when you applied for the job but in a much broader sense for your project.
[Reply]
Sherry Evans Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 6:31 am
Sarah:
You know everyone here thinks the world of you. You have foresight. You have courage. You care about all of us and sharing your experience to hopefully help educate us enough to be positive rather than pessimistic about our future.
I don’t even know WHO would criticize you for anything you have said or done. To my way of thinking, each of us is the only one who lives in our own skin and walks in our own shoes. We are UNIQUE. Nobody ELSE has the exact same situation when it comes to where we live, how we live, who we live with, who we care for, who helps provide for us or if we are the sole provider in a household, etc. We don’t judge anyone here, and anyone who DOES probably does it out of just plain meanness, spite, or even jealousy. Please do NOT blame a whole BARREL of apples for there being one, two, or a few rotten apples mixed in.
I don’t know if the comments you are talking about were made in here or somewhere else, although I noted you mentioned “the MT Chat server,” so I don’t think it was here. I DO understand what you mean, though, from past experience with the forum at CareerStep. If you get flamed for telling the truth when “they” have asked FOR THE TRUTH, then you are only wasting your breath.
Whether you were “lucky” in finding your job or whether you were just “smart enough to check out a lot of possibilities,” what this says to me is that YOU are one smart lady. You can’t control what anyone thinks or does, so once you have given people the information you think will be of interest or might be helpful, that is really the extent of how far you can take things. I for one am really GLAD that you made the career move, and I for one am also REALLY glad that you care enough about the people in THIS group to share with us…and to keep coming BACK to share.
Please do NOT give up on those of us who come here regularly. You “know” who of us are here to just aggravate the “H-E-double toothpicks” out of others and who are here to share, care, ask questions, and try to learn and get benefit from the networking. Ignore who you need to, but don’t make the rest of us lose you over something WE couldn’t control…PLEASE?
[Reply]
Sarah, you made a comment somewhere else about how at ACE they may be just “sitting around braiding each other’s hair.” I have to say that perhaps it was that way in the past–more of a social occasion (which it really is for me in a way, because I’ve made a lot of friends over the years). However, it really had more of a somber tone this year. Everyone is scared about what to do, where to go–coding? EHRs? Cooking school? I think that what you lucked into–yes, lucked–would have been a fantastic example to share with this year’s attendees. There was a lot of discussion about EHR roles but no one, save one presenter, really got into the specifics about how we might fit in. I think that the position you obtained was the exception to the rule. Having been in the DSU program for the past couple of months, believe me I have done a lot of looking at future jobs, and I have not seen anything comparable to what you are doing. I hope to see more of that in the future, and I do hope that you will continue to be an advocate for the profession that has helped you achieve your success. Believe me, we need advocates right now and not naysayers. Thanks for listening.
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 1:03 am
Deb, you know the only thing I’d disagree with here is that the jobs ARE out there. In our webinar tonight, we talked about how to find them. I don’t think the jobs are lacking, I think we’re just looking for the wrong job titles. In going through the HIMSS job board last night, I pulled out 11 different job titles that an MT who actually has a real understanding of the EHR could probably do. They are there, we just have to have the knowledge and be bold enough to go after them!
[Reply]
Sherry Evans Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 6:21 am
Kathy:
I think the thing we HAVE to stop doing is looking AT job titles! CLICK ON EVERYTHING AND READ THE DUTIES! If you know in your heart you can do what they are talking about, then take the next step. On the flip side, if you know it is outside your knowledge base you STILL have 2 possibilities: (1) You can apply, knowing that you may have some (or most) of the knowledge but just need on-the-job training for part of what they need or (2) continue your search. If it is your choice to apply for that job, there is still NOTHING saying you can’t get it. It will depend on the other people that apply and the FIRST IMPRESSION that everyone gives during an interview.
Just STOP LOOKING AT JOB TITLES and apply for anything that looks like a reasonable match for you once you read the description.
[Reply]
Hey Sarah, I hope you won’t give up on us! I know there are lots of “mean girls” out there, but I (for one) really appreciate your honesty and your willingness to dialogue. I hope you’ll stay around
I have to agree with so much that has been said here on this thread. I do believe that until an MT has been in the position of QA, recruiter, or employer, they simply do not know what really goes on out there in “MT world.” Also, we can’t forget that this is a completely unregulated industry–and that means we are going to be dealing with everything from top-notch professionals to bottom-of-the-barrel “typists” that think the job was created for the purpose of providing a WAH job. Weeding out the wide range of attitudes and capabilities is *extremely* difficult. I won’t get started on my certification soap box, but that is one of the BEST reasons to advocate for credentialing. We need barriers to entry. It won’t guarantee the absolute best work (even doctors and lawyers that pass the boards and the bar are not necessarily great doctors and lawyers), but it will HELP to weed out the workforce. (PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THAT AS A SLIGHT TO THOSE WHO ARE NOT CURRENTLY CERTIFIED–THERE’S NO INFERENCE THAT IF YOU ARE NOT CERTIFIED, YOU ARE A WEED). But, putting some pressure on MTs to “step up to the plate” and differentiate themselves in the marketplace should in theory make a big difference. I think we have already proven what happens when we don’t embrace widespread credentialing.
The comment last weekend at ACE about MT being comparable to manufacturing struck a chord with me because it implies that we are making widgets and that our “raw materials” (ie, sound files) are all equal. It implies that we all start with the same raw material and can produce the same high quality “widget” at the end of the process. In reality, we have NO control over the quality of the raw material (the dictation) yet we are asked to create the same 100% accurate (perfect widget) document every time. Here’s where I’m going with this: regardless of our pay structure, our credentials, our education system, or our experience, we cannot talk about quality without talking about the provider’s responsibility to provide usable dictation. We have suffered miserably because time pressures on physicians have increased, and in response, they are pushing the envelope on dictation practices. The pressure on the MT to produce more in a shorter TAT has increased tremendously, without a corresponding push-back on dictation quality. I believe that a huge part of the MT’s frustration and horrible morale is that we are always the one asked to “give”. Give more production for less pay with very poor quality materials. Part of the quality equation is standing up for the MT and insisting on usable dictation.
As long as CFOs, MTSO owners, business managers, and supervisors treat this business as a manufacturing business—not the knowledge-based service business that it TRULY is, we will continue to have severe problems with quality, pay, and morale.
[Reply]
Linda K. Reply:
August 25th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
Laura,
I second everthing that you posted. Companies do need to “weed” out the workforce and keep the cream of the crop, credentials or not. We also need quality usable dictation to work from to provide the best work for the patient. Reward accuracy not line counts, have usable dictations, great MTs, and the end product can be 100% accuracy.
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 12:48 am
Laura, thanks for coming back. First, I really don’t think, in this one case, we had a case of a “mean girl” here. I think it’s a simple misunderstanding that was truly unfortunate.
I really think our call for credentialing has to start with having the data to show it matters. We simply don’t have that. We had a long talk about that today on a task force that i chair and I continue to ask that we find a way to get data collected to prove what we’re saying. In the book I referenced today about patient safety, the author makes it very clear that without data you really have no idea what you’re working with or up against. I did see one report today that showed a very small difference in the QA scores between those who were a CMT and those who weren’t. I’m a firm believer that until we have data to back up our belief that it makes a difference, we’re talking to ourselves.
I also agree that the quality starts with the dictation. It’s really a team effort, and it’s a team that rarely is recognized because of the culture we work in within the healthcare industry. I also think that frankly that “team” became broken when we went home to work. We don’t have the interaction with physicians like we used to have when we were in the hospitals. That hasn’t helped our cause at all.
I sure don’t have all the answers, but I do believe these are important, yet tough, things that we need to be discussing.
[Reply]
It’s disturbing to see insolent remarks about MTs on a website for MTs.
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 12:43 am
Lisa, I always hate to see that as well. I think this topic just stirred up lots of emotion for everyone and we always need to be careful about that when we respond. Our conversations here have always been known for being respectful and I hope we can continue that way.
[Reply]
I’m sorry to jump here at the bottom without reading all the above posts, but being one of the fortunate people with a job, my time is short. Please forgive me if this was already discussed but I just want to add one thing. The accounts that I work on are strict verbatim. Many of the doctors do not speak complete sentences or speak half of the sentence and end that thought combined with another. Articles are inferred but if not spoken, I can’t type them in. But the WORST thing is these clinics DO NOT FOLLOW THE BOS. Things I was taught in school that would be glaring errors are not allowed to be corrected. Until the physicians and hospitals or the transcription companies that employ us make the Book of Style the required standard that must be followed, those of us who do know the difference will blend in sadly with the MTs who don’t.
[Reply]
Kathy Reply:
August 26th, 2011 at 12:40 am
Cindy I think you make a good point that what’s being considered “quality” now has changed a lot. That said, I must say that it’s my opinion that we’ve focused way too much on the things in the BOS for today’s world. So much of it really doesn’t matter in the EHR. It’s not that I think standards aren’t important. What I do worry about in our education model, however, is spending so much time on that that we ignore really preparing someone for the technology they need to have sustainable employment. For me, unless grammar/punctuation changes the meaning of the sentence, I don’t think we should be sweating it that much. At the same time, I absolutely get it that MTs are being told to do NO editing at all and that’s a big deal. The kind of errors I’m talking about, however, are the ones that are just blatantly wrong. There are a LOT of really good MTs out there. I think it’s the ones who aren’t so good, and maybe don’t even know they aren’t that good, that create a big part of this problem. It’s just always been something we only talk about in whispers and I think it’s time to put it on the table.
[Reply]
“People don’t know what they don’t know.” It’s one of my favorite lines and it applies so well to MT. I’m certain that the vast majority of MTs would not knowingly, willingly, or deliberatly create an error in a medical document, but if you don’t know that you are doing something wrong, you are going to (naturally) assume that you are right. Have you *ever* heard on MT say, “yeah, I did it wrong and I know I did it wrong.”? The more I learn, the more I realize how much more there is to be learned.
It takes an open mind, an obsessively curious personality, and a healthy dose of personal skepticism (ie, doubting yourself and double-checking)to be a top-notch MT.
Most “bad” MTs simply don’t know they are “bad MTs”. And you could probably point to their training as the major source of this problem. If you graduated with a 98% in transcription, would you think you were lacking?
[Reply]